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tv   Hannity  FOX News  August 5, 2011 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT

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closed captioning by closed captioning services, inc. >> this is a fox news alert. standard & poor's downgrading the united states credit rating for the first time ever. the country's top aaa rating will be lowered one knowledge to a aa+. the agency saying it is making the move because the deficit reduction plan passed tuesday didn't go far enough to stabilize the country's debt situation. a source familiar with the discussion says that the obama administration believes s&p's analysis contained "deep and once again standard & poor's has just downgraded the united states credit rating for the first time ever that means the country's top aaa
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rating is now going to be lowered by one knowledge to a aa+. now back to hannity, already in progress. >> sean: the governor's staff said he was taking time off from the office to recharge after the stimulus battle declined to say where he was. later in the day his spokesman said he was hiking on the appalachian trail. two days later the governor returned. june 24th, 2009, governor sanford is spotted walking through the atlanta airport and tells the state newspaper that he was not hiking along the appalachian trail, but rather in attorney general. speculation started swirling. the precedent have to wait long for answers. later that afternoon, governor would cash would whole a press conference. >> i'm a bottom line kind of guy. i'll lay it out. it is going to hurt. we'll let the chips fall where they may. in so doing, let me first of
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all apologize to my wife jenny and our four great boys. the bottom line is this, i've been unfaithful to my wife. i developed a relationship with a very dear friend from argentina. it began very innocently, as i suspect these things do, just casual e-mails back and forth. advice, here recently over this last year, it developed into something much more. as a consequence, i hurt her, i hurt you all, i hurt my wife, i hurt the boys, i hurt friends, i hurt a lot of
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people. >> sean: the governor reveal that the extramarital affair had gone on for months. >> i'm going to resign as chairman of the committee. >> sean: sanford didn't say whether he would resign as south carolina's governor. reporters immediately began asking about his next step. >> will you resign as governor? >> sean: the governor resisted you calls for his resignation. jenny sanford released a statement saying she knew about the affair and asked her husband to leave two weeks earlier. days after the press conference governor sanford dropped another bombshell in an interview with the associated press. sanford admits this wasn't the first time he been unfaithful to his wife. he also said, "i will be able to die knowing i had met my soulmate." it was one of those things i knew the cost. the news was out and the damage to his political career was done. but he continued to serve as governor until his term ended
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in january of 2011. joining me now for his first interview since the news broke about his extramarital affair in 2009 is former south carolina governor sanford. appreciate you being here, thank you very much. >> pleasure. >> sean: it is interesting. i read a lot about your life. there's a dichotomy here. i won't use the term split personality, that's a little harsh. i read about your background. your family life. your life growing up. your values. things you did as governor. your faith. you are a staunch, christian conservative, conservative governor. how do you explain the two sides of your life? >> you know, i think that's one of the 94 dollar questions in all of life, which is the reality of our own humanity. none of us are perfect.
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if there is any lesson learned here for me and a lot of reflection, it is the significance of god's grace and the grace of others. because the reality s every one of us are imperfect. >> sean: everything you did was -- were you really on a path, a lot of people were talking about you may one day be the president of the united states. you know about that talk? >> yeah and i don't think it is particularly constructive to look back on the might have opinions of life. i think the reality -- the might have beens of life. what have i learned and i would say, i said to a friend the other day, i probably have more to offers a human being than i ever have, probably a smaller canvass to paint on. that's the reality of every one of our lives. it may be a financial crisis. it may be a personal crisis. you go down the laundry list
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of different things. i ased to read the paper. i would read and i would -- i used to read the paper. i would read and i would say, lose are, moron, now i say but for the grace of god go it. >> sean: more recently anthony weiner, john edwards running for president of the united states. bill clinton in the oval office. are those the people that you used to refer to when you read the paper what a loser, idiot? i did see those comments you made. >> i'm not aiming at any one person, i'm just saying generally. again, i keep going back to lessons learned. whether it is on the judgment front. on the need for grace. again, i think probably the more constructive thing is look at not what one might have done, how did you get things wrong? again, what did you learn from it? a wealth of lessons learned. >> sean: you say you are
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probably more prepared now to be a leader in a sense, there's been a lot of talk about maybe you reentering the political world, i'm jumping ahead, a little. are you considering that? >> no, i'm not wham i'm saying is, i don't think in some ways you have lived until you failed. hopefully not in a monumental level. but i think there's a period of introspection. a time in the desert. that you cannot appreciate until you have been there. i think that for those of us who are achievers, my life has been one way and linear in nature, you never stop long enough to do the soul-searching that comes with the time in the desert. >> sean: let me talk about for example, the conflict i see in you. you are having this relationship with this woman in argentina. these letters that you had, e-mails back and forth between the two of you. i read one and it talks about you knew you were being considered as a possible
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vice presidential choice of john mccain. at another point you are quoting the bible in a letter to your mistress. and i'm reading this and trying to put that together. >> i would say the word mistress con notates a financial level of support -- county ats a financial level of support, there was none, she from a wealthy family, a fine family down that way so i couldn't define it as mistress. >> sean: the woman you were having an affair with. >> yes. i fell in love with somebody i shouldn't have. what everybody focuses on is that moment. there were 10 years before that, where i knew this person and she was nothing more than a friend. it was purely plutonic. i didn't see it coming. she didn't see it coming. but it happened. the bigger question not in that moment, not what attracted me to her, i go back
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to lessons learned. i would say this to men out there if you want to fireproof your marriage there are a couple of vital things that you do that i have learned. >> sean: like what? >> i would say one, i got my priorities off. for 20 years almost, invested my life into trying to make an impact in the direction this country would go to debt, deficit and spending. i thought that was my calling. jenny used to say if they figured out what they pay you hourly you are working for less than minimum wage. i think as men we often times define our calling by what we do. it is true if you are an athlete, in business, in media, world of politics. i think the reality now, after this last chapter of life is, as important as that was, that was not my calling in life. this is going to sound weird and i wouldn't have said it prior to these two years. i would say now my calling is
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to seek first god's kingdom and his righteousness and all the other stuff will be added. to love god and your neighbor as yourself. if you get that as true north, east, south and west, arem%l6f well-defined. if you get off on what your real calling is. if you begin to define it as your work, as important as that might be. a lot of other things fall out of place. >> sean: i think there's a ton of lessons that a lot of people can learn. i've done the same thing you have. i looked at the paper, idiot, idiot. sometimes maybe it is judge mental. maybe there's some lessons to learn. maybe i think a lot of people can learn a lotto night. we'll talk about that. we'll talk -- learn a lot tonight. we'll talk about that and your future. coming up more with former governor sanford, as hannity continues. >> i wish t(ñ!-t was a school for guys as we grow up. there's not. you figure that as best you can. i don't think i properly loved jenny.
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>> reporter: the credit rating agency standard & poor's downgrading the united states credit rating for the first time ever. the country's top aaa rating will be lowered to aa+. the agency saying that it is making the move because the deficit reduction plan passed by congress tuesday didn't go far enough to stabilize the country's debt situation. a source familiar with the discussion says the obama administration believes s&p's analysis contained "deep and fundamental flaws. the downgrade comes despite last week's deal to increase the nation's credit limit. the deal will effect many americans because it could raise the rates of credit cards, mortgages and car loans. we go to chief white house correspondent ed henry can you tell us about this?
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what it means to the average consumer? >> reporter: it could have a dramatic impact on interest rates on the markets when they open monday obviously this is why it is such a big deal. no united states president has soon a downgrade like this on his watch. it -- has seen a gown grade like this on his watch. it has been downgraded fromó= aaa to aa+. we just got reaction from the obama administration. saying, a judgment flawed by a two trillion dollar error speaks for itself. what this official was referring to was behind the scenes negotiations over the last two hours between the obama treasury department and standard & poor's. this afternoon we are told by senior government official standard & poor's said to the administration, we are going to downgrade u.s. debt and gave them background information. the administration quickly read that and they say the administration does, they found a math error. which basically
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standard & poor's overcounted two trillion in debt. they sent it back to standard & poor's there was a bit of a standoff. as you can tell, standard & poor's forward any way and says whether it was an error or whether it is in dispute they are downgrading u.s. debt because they believe the debt deal which cut a trillion upfront, signed into law by the president tuesday, doesn't go far enough. the administration is pushing back. saying the super committee on capitol hill is supposed to have cuts of 1.5 trillion or more by the end of the year. obviously, standard & poor's thinks that is not good enough. finch and moody's, two other agencies, have not downgraded u.s. debt so far. >> fact that the white house is saying wait a minute, you made a mistake, now it is downgraded. you can't go back, right? >> reporter:, well i mean it could go -- further down. the standard & poor's report,
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that comes with this downgrade says it is going to be reevaluateing the situation in the days ahead. and in -- in 12 to 18 months they could downgrade u.s. debt further. obviously, it could go in the other direction and they could decide to put it back to aaa status if the committee on capitol hill makes serious spending cuts, maybe looks at tax changes. it could go up or down. obviously this is not static. right now with the u.s. drowning in so much debt, 14 trillion, the debt ceiling had to be raised -- >> sean: welcome back. we continue with former south carolina governor mark sanford. there was -- your wife wrote this book. for example, she knew about this relationship you were having with this woman for a long time. for a couple of months. she was asked in an interview if there were any signs? one of the things she said before were you married you
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wanted to take out the word faithful. that struck me. you are a pretty christian guy. why would you want to take out the word "faithful" in the vows? >> there are certain things i'm not going into on this interview because i think it would bring harm to jenny or the boys and that would be one of them. let's define it as a mistake and leave it at that. >> sean: my question is did you have doubts in your heart about your ability -- i'm only asking -- i'm not trying to be salacious. i'm asking you because maybe deep down inside i wondered, if had you doubts about your ability, way back when, that maybe you thought this was a mistake. maybe you didn't think you had the ability to be faithful. >> none of which is constructive or -- >> sean: you don't think it is constructive to somebody maybe watching? >> in other words, the intracacies of my relationship with jenny, i don't think are
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that constructive, because they are not tied to somebody else's life. two other things that i did learn about marriage and gets it -- and getting it right. i mentioned the importance of true north in terms of one's true calling in life. not vocation. i would say secondly, the bible talks about really loving one's wife as christ loved the church. i wish there was a school for guys as we grow up. there's not. you kind of figure thatío as best you can. i don't think i properly loved jenny. i put the fate of our marriage in my camp as she deserves to be loved as a woman, not in a feeling, as in action. one of the guys who took me aside the last couple of years an old-timer from wyoming. this is simplistic, so i'm not trying to be should have miss. he said core to every -- to be
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chauvinistic. core to every man, -- core to every man for significance if he gets it, in his work, then he's going to get it there. if he doesn't he might become a scoutmaster, little league coach but he's going to get respect and significance in some form. if you get the dance of marriage right. the woman is getting the security she needs and the man is getting the . but wait. if you get that dance wrong. -- if the man does not originally as he should in terms of loing the wife, a lot of things can go wrong over 20 years. lastly, another important lesson that i learned is the importance of putting the marriage up on the pan tell piece. >> sean: what does -- on the mantle piece. >> sean: what does that mean? >> you treat it special and unique. i think for instance it was a mistake. i asked jenny to be campaign
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manager for each of my campaigns. you talk about a difficulty in managing roles. your boss and you go home thursday night from washington let's go over that list of calls, you didn't or did make. it can be very difficult. i think those things are very important. >> sean: you're saying and i think people can learn from you. i think there are a lot of people get in your situation they never talk again. maybe your two years of reflection can be helpful. i went back and looked at your press conference. i looked at comments that you have made many one interview you said -- made. in one interview you said on weighing your political career you would be able to die knowing you had met your soulmate. it was one of those things you said i knew the cost. you are talking about putting your marriage on this mantle. did you think that day what your wife is thinking when you
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are saying this other woman is my soulmate, not this woman i spent 20 years with? >> again a host of mistakes none of which i'm going to particularly walk through with you. the relevant things are the three things i just pointed out in early of lessons learned. there's been a real connection between myself and belin for almost 12 years. it has been nothing temporary or short term. you take life as it comes. >> sean: let me ask this question. one of the things -- your wife i thought was gracious. she believes you can get back on track. she believed you were always sincere. that you got off track. you can get back on track. but not in your marriage. she describes how she found the letter and discovered this was going on. she described in detail in her book the day that you announced this to the world. when you came back from that trip. when you were supposed to be hiking on a trail.
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and you in fact went to venezuela. had you been separated at that point. she said, she said to you, you cannot go after you had requested numerous times to go back to see this woman. i guess the question is, you know, if you're obsessing over this woman and you want to go back to see her again and again and you have these young kids at home and you have this white who in retrospect you think you should have served better. my question is why aren't you thinking of that at the time, making a pen tall image of her and your kid -- mental image of her and your kids as you are flying to meet this woman in another country? >> again, a long range of different emotions and thoughts all of which falls for me in the personal category. and i hope you respect that. i think the important part is what i go back to. are there lessons learned,
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based on my mistake? is one, you -- i think there's a temptation in life to have 7/8 faith. i'm still not there i'm on the journey, god wants 100%. i would say secondly, you have to make it -- when you put not your hunting trip, not your work, not the next sporting event but what your wife would rather do ahead of what you would rather do you get the synchronization right. you got to protect that marriage. >> sean: we have much more with my interview with former governor sanford. coming up after the break, as hannity continues. what the hell were you thinking when you are flying off to pete your girlfriend after you promised your -- to meet your girlfriend, after you promised you were not going to go. >> you don't know the conversation i had with my wife. my doctor told me calcium
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. >> sean: welcome back. we continue with former south carolina governor mark sanford is with us. you just said something that i think is profound and good marital add vase for anybody. you've got to -- advice for
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anybody. you've got to put your family first. you can't be so identified with your work that that is who you are. one of the main lessons you said you've learned. i'm listening closely and i read your wife's book. look the day when you came back, you said everything is good to her. then you give the press conference and called her and you said how did i do? when you are explaining that you just went off after you promised her she says that you would not go see this woman. you are saying all these things about marriage. the most recent picture i saw you are still seeing this other woman that you call your soulmate if you really believe those things the question i have is, why are you trying to go back to this woman and be with her and try and do those thins to her? in other words, make up --
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make up with her, be with your kids and not looking elsewhere. that seems to be contradictory. >> jenny said you had a road ahead but not with marriage. i would say several ingredients here. i would say, i don't want to go into feelings and all those different things but there's been a remarkable connection for a long time with this other person. >> sean: that's where you are now. >> uh-huh. >> sean: i don't hear sadness in your voice. with all of this, unfortunately, for you, i guess in happens with a lot of people that yours played out in the public eye. it seems like you are just so excited about the new chapter if your life, you seem reflective on one side. but you seem more engaged with the other side of your new life, that it seems like your
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words aren't corresponding with your behavior. when you said these things about the soulmate and all these things. i read that and i was like whoa. i was thinking about your wife who i don't even know, i was thinking, she even described it as a punch in the stomach. do you think about how deeply you hurt her? >> and i generally regret that? >> sean: you talk to her about that? >> again you are going into personal conversations between me and jenni. i think again, you keep focusing on the affair. but i keep going back to the lessons learned that have everything to do with getting right 20 years. an affair is a symptom there is always something broken with the marriage. so, i would say the lessons to be learned are not going to be captured in the personalities
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of jenny or belen or anybody he will. they are going to be in those things i described in teeing up correctly the prior 20 years. >> sean: with your biblical belief and your stated christian belief. i did notice in these letters to this woman you were quoting the bible, which i found contradictory. >> sure. >> sean: i'm seeing a conflict here. >> there's been a host of times i should have been real. i don't know i will completely understand them and certainly you won't in our interview. >> sean: if you reflected in this two year period of time isn't real love not a feeling? >> no, it is an action as i said. in terms of what you have to focus on in truly loving your wife. all i can do is take what went wrong and say what do you learn from that in getting it right going for. you can spend a lot of time as we are now, in looking back. you can't redo yesterday. what you can do is take what you have done right or wrong
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in life, learn from it and try to get it right going forward. >> sean: one of the things that amazed me, you separated from your wife. she knows$ys this is going on. you don't tell your staff where you are going. you fly off to meet your girlfriend. and she probably assumed she knew where you were. you are the governor of a big state that you're even admitting a potential vice presidential candidate maybe one day a presidential candidate. is your brain not telling you this is a bad idea and i'm probably going to get caught and it is going to ruin my wife? >> we all make mistakes we can dwell on it. you knowcus on -- >> sean: this is a specific question. -- >> did you think -- a lot of things you do differently in life going forward. >> sean: do you remember hugh grand was on jay leno after his -- -- hugh grant was on jay leno, after he was dating
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liz hurley. he looked at him and asked, what the hell are you thinking? what the hell are you thinking off to meet your girlfriend after you promised your wife you weren't going to go. >> you don't know the conversation i had with my wife. >> sean: i'm going based on her book. >> but any way, i simply go back to there are things you are going to make a mistake on in life satan goes from the great tempter to the great reminder. i haven't done an interview for two years. you hideout in a cave. i've been down on our farm, working down there you don't want to stick our head out because you fear it will get chopped off again. the reason i'm back on this is because i've had -- i was the first governor to reject the stimulus package. >> sean: you were tea party before tea party. >> i think i have something to say tied to the economy and
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where headed many tied to this debt and deficit debate. >> sean: i promise this is my last question. i'm really serious. because i think governor, one of the things you said when we were talking about doing this interview, you wanted to help people. i promise we are going to talk policies. when you are in these moments and you are making those decisions i am and you are leaving your kids and wife -- and and i'm serious in wanting an answer. do you think about them back at home? >> it is a period of remarkable and real conflict. some of which i'm still dealing with today. i would also say from a practical, political standpoint there was a back channel way of getting ahead of me. i didn't abandon the state. i was done tacked down there. i flew back early into the storm of my -- i was contacted down there.
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i flew back early. there was a way to get ahold of me, i came back. and i dealt with obviously, a fairly horrendous press conference. >> sean: more of my one-on-one interview with former governor mark sanford, as hannity continues. any candidate you are looking at that you think you could support that you think could be able to beat barack obama? >> i would say the attribute is a combination of -- [ inaudible ]
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. when your score goes down because you miss payments or you have bad call if i credit it cost you more of a down payment when you are trying to make a mortgage.
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another reaction that we might see, you just never know with the market so i'm hesitant to say this would happen, a possible weaker dollar. higher borrowing costs seem to be what a lot of people would expect. >> is this going to put more pressure on lawmakers to cut spending further or would that effect it? >> they ought to take this major, major announcement, that is saying come on get the fiscal house in order. s&p in its report say the fiscal consolidation plan the debt sealing deal that congress and the administration agreed to fell short of what s&p believed to be necessary to stabilize the government's debt dynamic that's the big message, cut more. s&p was the one agency that said -- they went out on the record, two, three weeks ago saying we need to see four trillion in cut . we only saw two and change trillion. s&p could have looked at that as a down payment towards the
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four trillion. they couldn't seven ways until sunday, they must have tried, they couldn't square it with what they needed to see, four trillion in cuts and real bipartisan agreement ton this thing. >> what needs to happen now? what need to be the next move to correct this, if there is a next move? >> listen it is absolutely correctable in the past, remember japan, canada, australia, they've all been downgraded from aaa rating they got it back. sometimes in several months. but, you have to get the house in order. just like would you your own balance sheet before you can get your fico score improved. the big issue is what will the markets do? sunday night is when asian markets open. it will be interesting to see what happens. there are certain mutual funds that maybe some of your viewers own their mandate is they have to own aaa rated quality assets they will be forced to keep up with that mandate, to sell that. >> all right, liz thank you
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for your insight. the credit rating agency standard & poor's has just downgraded the united states credit rating. the aaa rating will be lowered to a aa+. we'll have more as information becomes available. now back to hannity, already in progress. >> sean: welcome back. we continue with former south carolina governor mark sanford. we've been talking a lot about your personal life. this is the first interview you have done in a couple of years now. >> nationally. >> sean: nationally. you did a couple of local. where do you go from here? i look over your record and
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i'm saying check, check, check. you were almost tea party before the tea party movement really galvanize. you rejected stimulus funds, later in your governorship, vetoed bills, tax friendly, tax reform, head of the republican governors association. your life now is turned upside down. where do you go from here? >> i don't know. that's a new journey. i've always had a plan. it is this larger process of letting go which is where i think god wants us to be. >> sean: do you want to influence the debate? >> that's why i'm back on. the most comfortable thing for me would not have been going through the conversation we've been having. >> sean: you've done a good job dodging my questions. >> i think that -- some i did dodge, but i want to be clear.
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to answer them would bring more pain to my boys. more pain to others think that love. friends that i disappointed. i hope you respect that. >> sean: how are things with your wife and your kids now? how is your relationship, is it better, healing? >> it is healing. the notion of time heals all things, i think is -- >> sean: one thing remarkable about your wife, i don't know her, i never met her, i wasn't married to her. i did find her willingness to constantly say she would forgive you fascinating to me. have she forgive haven't you, have the boys forgiven you? >> yeah, we are in a good place on that >> sean: you are watching these events going on one of the things you did say you liked being governor and you didn't like being governor. >> i loved the war of ideas and battle of ideas. liberty is the hallmark of the
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american experiment. it is a fairly fragile and precious thing that can disappear more quickly than people realize. this larger debate of ideas and how you maintain liberty within the american system, was something that captivated me. debt and deficient fit and deficit spend something just a proxy for freedom. if the government takes your money you are not able to spend it. it was always tied to this larger notion of freedom. i think we are something of a tipping point as a country. i'm going to crawl out of my self-imposed hole. obviously i have a diminished voice relative to a voice i might have had. as best i can, as a wounded warrior, if you want to call it that, i'm going to start speaking up on the significance of where we are, with regard to debt, deficit and spending. the importance of changing the treatment plan, if you want to call it that. i think the doctors have been
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misdiagnosing in washington. and i'm going to speak up on this larger notion. i think we are about out of time in this presidential election cycle if we don't get it right, i think financial markets will correct that which we haven't corrected. >> sean: we are on the verge of losing our aaa rating. is there any candidate you are looking atta you think you could support that you think could be able to beat barack obama? >> i would say the attributes is a combination of paul ryan and chris christie. i think we need somebody who is whiching to get under the hood, as paul ryan has, in real detail not political platitudes, in real detail say here's where we can cut here, here's where we can reform here's where we can change. i think he's done a remarkable job on that front. right now i've been disappointed on the degree to
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which people are stepping out or not on real remedies. again, whether it is saying okay we can grow at a certain percentage rate of growth that hasn't happened in 30, 40 years as a waive solving economic problems. -- as a way of solving chick problems. certain folks have not weighed into the debate until after it passed. i think that is not what we need. >> sean: not one of these plans solve the problem. every year spending goes up 8%. while we saved a trillion we are going to increase the debt -- by eight trillion. it is ridiculous. we'll continue with former south carolina governor mark sanford. thank you for being with us. [ male announcer ] imagine all of your missed opportunities in one place. the winning horse you could have picked. ♪
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the two trains and a bus rider. the "i'll sleep when it's done" academic. for 80 years, we've been inspired by you. and we've been honored to walk with you to help you get where you want to be ♪ because your moment is now. let nothing stand in your way. learn more at keller.edu. >> sean: we continue with former south carolina governor mark sanford is with us.
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it is funny, we are having this interview, when i'm you discussing the personal side of your life, obviously harder. when i discuss issues, you become animated. you closed off a little then open up here. does it frustrate you that because of this, that your voice is diminished a little? i see the animation when we are talking about the budget, deficit, debt, you are animated. when you are asked what happened, i don't want to talk about it this is a passion but your voice is muted a little bit. >> not a little bit. >> sean: not completely. people are hearing you now. >> like i say, i messed up. it is my passion. i don't know why, but i've been fired up about this stuff for 20 years. i voted accordingly when i was in the united states congress and certainly -- >> sean: that's why i was asking you before. you knew you might be
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president one day, vice president one day that's why i kept going back to the question did you think about those things? [ talking over each other ] >> sean: i see how passionate you are about this. i think america is at risk of going , am i right? >> absolutely. >> sean: what does bankruptcy mean for the world and america? >> it means global depression. think about it this way. >> sean: you think we can have a global depression? >> absolutely. a professor from university of married land and harvard wrote a back that chronicles the last 800 years as it relates to government. they found, when you get around 90% debt to gdp, bad things begin to happen to the economy. we are at that point now. >> sean: greece is 150. >> greece is 140, we are not far behind. we will be there with greece.
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what is interesting, if you look at in every debt crisis in its own currency, in every instance, price levels rose by 99 times. if you had a dollar of purchasing power, you would have a penny at the end of the debt crisis. what does that mean? in the 70s, with the venezuela bolivar there was a debt crisis they went 4-1 on the dollar to the bolivar to 6,000-1. it means if you had a fortune worth 100 million dollars at beginning of the crisis at the end, today this is going 70s, you would have $20,000 worth of purchasing power. you are talking about horrendous destruction of everything people have saved and earned over the course of their lifetime. it happened in hungary, in argentina. they talked about people needing as much as a wheel barrel to buy a loaf of bread.
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you are talking horrendous levels -- >> sean: i'm curious, did they offer advice on where to invest your money to protect? >> no. that's the scary part. >> sean: there's no safe haven. >> there's the interesting part, if you look at the numbers, over the last 10 years we've gone from five trillion in debt to 14 trillion. [ talking over each other ] >> concurrently, if you look at aggregate debt in this country it has again from 20 trillion to about 56, 57 trillion dollars. the prescription that has been offered out of washington first cash for clunkers, rebates on housing let's there money out there. >> sean: keynesian model. >> then you had bernanke saying let's flood the system with money neither works. you have to look at irving fisher's writings in the 30s
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he studied the great depression. he says, you can have a balance sheet driven recession. they think this is an inventory event recession where you throw a little money and off to the races again this is a balance sheet driven problem with too much debt. the only way you get out is by extinguishing debt. that will be incredibly painful. >> sean: more of my interview with former south carolina governor sanford, straight ahead. i'm listening and i think you are a brilliant man, had you a great governorship. and it is like you can explain how you made ridiculously crazy decisions. >> i fell in love. not right. not the way to do it. i fell in love. [ rge ] psst. constated? phillips' caplet use gnesium, an ingredient that works more naturally wityour colon than stimulant xatives, for fective reli of constipation without cramps. thanks.
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>> sean: we continue with former governor mark sanford. we are agreeing on the economy. we are not dealing with this ridiculous, insane, baseline budgeting, which growth rates of about 8% a year. we are on a path to bankruptcy we are going to be debt to gdp ratio will be over 100% which means america is on a path to . you are saying this is a --
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there is a way to stop it. the tea party is good because they are demanding fiscal responsible. i think it going to take a new president and congress to get there, am i right? >> it will. two thoughts going back to what we were discussing before the break. one, edward gibbons wrote an interesting book in 1776 on the fall of the romance. he looked at the fall of the greeks they said more than freedom they wanted security. they wanted a comfortable life and they lost it all. [ unintelligible ] i think you look across the annals of time, and you see this pattern of destruction where people in essence get ahead of themselves. a book on the rise and fall of great powers, economic supremacy was the precursor to
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military. what goes wrong is the economic part. what i would argue going back to your point is in essence the origins the tea party are our last hope in turning this around. it is vital that people begin to speak up and make their voice heard. if not, the normal course of things is as jefferson said, again government to gain ground and liberty to yield. >> sean: i agree with all of that the tea party i think you read outliers, "tipping point" i think we are at a tipping point in a favorable way. we can start with taft in ohio and take it through reagan, up to the gingrich revolution through the tea party movement. i think every time america has dipped its toe into the socialist waters the keynesian economic model we have always come back to conservative principles. >> the catch has been that you
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aren't at this tipping point with regard to aggregate debt. you look at where we are, the point were you making 44% of all americans don't file. out of 66% that do, 20% are net contributors, 80% are net recipients. they may file if you include social security, medicare, they are net contributor. it can get to the point where more get than give to society just what gibbons was talking about the fall of athens. if you get to that point, you are over so it is vital people make their voice heard. >> sean: i think i know you less now. you are such an intelligent man. you are so well read. you did so many good things as governor. i'm still having a hard time, i go back to jay leno. it is amazing to me. you have this gift that you offered. i can't get over this. one last chance to answer
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this. what were you thinking? you are so smart. when you are doing these things with your upbringing and values. you are a very well read man, very intelligent. you have a great track record. i don't get it. i'm having a hard time standing you. i want to give you one last chance to tell us maybe what you have learned in two years. >> i think we covered that on the personal front. welcome to the human race. there are going to be conflicts in every one of us as human beings. >> sean: is that how you explain it away. quoting books from the 1800s and 1776 i'm listening and i think you are a brilliant man you had a great governorship. and it is like, this guy -- you can't explain how you made ridiculously crazy decisions? >> i fell in love. not right. not the way to do it. i fell in love. >> sean:

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